English: Comments on Mythical Astronomy Threads on Ogień i Lód Forum, Part II

translated by Bluetiger


artowrk by LML


Mityczna Astronomia Lodu i Ognia Część I – Astronomia wyjaśnia legendy lodu i ognia.

A thread for discussion about translation of LML’s Astronomy Explains the Legends of Ice and Fire essay. The translation to Polish by Bluetiger and Mou can be found here.


Started on the 8th July 2016, the second Mythical Astronomy thread in Polish:

Mityczna Astronomia Lodu i Ognia Część I – Astronomia wyjaśnia legendy lodu i ognia


1. by Mya Stone, 9th July 2016:

Great job. I’d just like to mention that even if there won’t be many comments below your texts, don’t let that discourage you, as that doesn’t mean that no one reads them. Just look at the number of views of this thread. And besides that, many unregistered users visit the forum, and since your text has been published on the portal (Pieśń Lodu i Ognia PL) and a link’s been posted on the fanpage (on Facebook), even my Unsullied (TV show-only watchers) are asking questions and reading. At the moment I have problems with finding time for reading, I’m waiting for the entire translation (wider perspective etc 😉 ). I keep my finger crossed, and Old Gods bless you. 😉 😉


2. by Super Inny, 9th July 2016:

Hey! Huge thanks for translating the next fragment of this work. I appreciate the effort, but I’ve noticed few minor problems:

[points out several typos in the text, weird sentence structure, few times where somthing was copied incorrectly etc.]


3. by Lord Bluetiger, 9th July 2016:

To Super Inny: Thanks for fidning those funny mistakes, unfortunately they’re in the part published by Mou [the essay was so long that on the forum it had to be published in few parts], so I can’t fix that. I’ll message him.

To Mya Stone: Thanks for your support. Sadly, the next week Mou will be quite busy and I’m not at home. If Mou finds some time, it’s possible that the next shorter Astronomy text will be published, a bonus to part one – essay ‘Lucifer Means Lightbringer’. But I can’t promise anything.

The next essay from the main series – ‘The Bloodstone Emperor Azor Ahai’ – is over 24 000 words long, while this part had 16 000 and ‘George R.R. Martin is writing modern mythology’ – only 4300…

I’m certain we’ll publish all translations, but we’re not sure how quickly. For now, I can only say that ‘Bloodstone Emperor’ might be publised a week and a half or two after ‘Lucifer Means Lightbringer’, but that’s not certain.

After ‘Bloodstone Emperor’, we’ll work on a shorter bonus – ‘Fingerprints of the Dawn’, 16 000 words long, so we’re thinking about publishing it in several parts, every few days – the original version was published this way.

After this is done, there’ll be ‘Waves of Night and Moon Blood’, ‘The Mountain and the Viper and the Hammer of Waters’, ‘Tyrion Targaryen’ and shorter ‘Language of Leviathan’, about the Ironborn. And we’re going to translate the future chapters of ‘Astronomy’ as well.

Now, we can only ask you for patience.


4. by Ayesha, 10th July 2016:

I’ve just read the first part, sorry it takes me so long, but I have virtually no time… Thanks for the next translation! For now, I’ll write about part one, when I’ll read this one, I’ll comment on it as well. 🙂

The reading is very interesting, but the more I read, the more I think that the bits about comets, moons and the sun is an overinterpretation, 😉 Yet, I’m in love with the part about the swords. I’ve arrived (well, with some help 😉 )at the conclusion that Oathkeeper has the biggest chance of being the Lightbringer. Three reforgings… the first in the water – Ice, the second in the lion’s heart – Oathkeeper and Widow’s Wail (I’m amazed by [LML] pointing out that during the second reforging Lightbringer split in two!) That fits my theory perfectly, yet I didn’t notice it!, and the third reforing in the wife’s heart – killing Lady Stoneheart with Oathkeeper (she’s Ned’s wife, and he was Ice’s owner).

And I’ve noticed the Targaryen colours [of the swords] (well… ‘noticed’, I’m blabbing about in half of this forum’s threads 😉 ). I’m currently working an extended conclusion to my A+J=J&C, and I’m using the quote about colours of the swords, you’ve quoted. And, I’ve noticed that the colours Tywin wanted the sword to have isn’t Lannister red [crimson] but Targaryen red. Well…. Maybe I’ll finish it some day, now I’m busy with the tourney [event on the forum]…

And, for me the red door as metaphor for dragon’s jaw is a huge overinterpretation, Dany’s dreams symbolise her longing [for home], and the red door her childhood – safety.

Once again, thanks for the translation. I’m beginning to become converted, but still, I don’t agree with the most of it [Mythical Astronomy]. 😉


5. by Nan, 11th July 2016:

I won’t be exaggerating if I say that this text was a great pleasure for me – especially the seoncd part :). All theories, thoughts and hypothesis concerning the dragons and Danerys are close to my heart/

And while reading the first part, I’ve returned to the old times, when reading about mythologies of different cultures was my favourite thing. 😉

I’m not familiar with this author’s essays, so I’ll ask you: Did LML, in any of his essays, reference the myths of ancient Egyptians?

The Sun and The Moon played an important role in their religion. The Egyptians created a fantastic cosmongony of the world’s creation.

Nut is the lady of the sky. The sky was associated with death, afterlife and revival. This revival was connected mainly to the Sun God, Ra. The goddess Nut did not onlu, accroding to one of the eldest stories, give birth to the Sun God Ra, but also allowed him to die and be reborn every day.

It was presented this way: every dusk the goddess swallows the sun, which travels through her body in the night, to be reborn the next day, at dawn.

The red of the dawn sky was viewed as the divine blood of Nut, accompanying the chidlbirth.

This revival applied to the dead people as well. The night sky was perceived as the underworld – where the souls of the deadappeared on horizon as stars.

So in a way, Nut is the caretaker of the dead.

As the mother of gods, Nut supposedly received a certain gift from Thoth: a five additional days each years, which were both the end of the old and the beginning of the new year.

It is thanks to this gift, that contrary to the will of the Sun God Re, she was able to give birth to her offspring.

And here’s a myth about the birth of the sun:

The myth of of the Sun being born from the body of goddess Nut, depicted as a woman, who gives birth to the sun every morning, to swallow it at dusk, belongs to the eldest tales explaining the birth of the sun and its voyage on the sky.

It’s the classical image of the birth of the sun, created in Heliopolis, which united the other cosmogonies talking about the goddess mother of sun or heavenly, cosmical cow, upholding the sky. (see)

The young ‘Re-Chepri’ sun starts this voyage in The East, on the barge Mandjet (morning barge). At midday, the tranforms into Re-Horachte, to become the greybeard Re-Atum at dusk, and travel the underwordly night sky on the barge called Mesektet (the evening barge). 

The sun barge sails across the body of Nut, who, barced on the eastern and western horizon, holds the primordial ocean above us. It can be said that without her, it’d fall down on our heads. The nightly voyage of the Sun was always the topic of consideration among egyptian theologians. 

The Sun was a god, not a celestial body, the fact that he traveled during the day wasn’t questioned, since everybody could see it. It was harder with the nightly voyage, as The Sun dissapered over the horizon and died, going to Duat.

Duat’s placement was different among various traditions. Sometimes it’s placed in the body of Nut, sometimes in the area around the imperishable stars of the northern part of the sky, sometimes in the north of the country, where the sky and the earth meet, sometimes in the west and finally, under the ground.

Finally, all those hypothesis were merged into one and mixed: it was said that the Land of the Dead lies in Nut, in the primordial ocean that surrounds the world on all sides. It’s both under the ground and in the sky, so also in the body of Nut.


I was searching for the meaning of the name Daenerys, and the only things that came to mind were two feminine names: Damaris and Dianyris.

Damaris has greek origins, coming from the word for ‘spouse’ (greek ‘damar’), or as, some sources say… calf 😉

As you can see, there are many contact points between the egyptian mythology, LML’s essays, and the ASOIAF and TWOIAF themselves.



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